Have you ever thought that maybe us men *should* be holding back those tears? Maybe not all the time, but most of the time?
We are also told that we need to be a container for women's emotions and that we need to be rock steady so that we can be predictable and reliable (that is what they call "emotional safety"). How can I break down crying but also be the container and the emotionally safe one? How can I let go if I have to be the rock the waves break against?
The messaging is all bullshit, all contradictory, *especially* from women. I've stopped listening to most of it and have worked on regulating my own emotions. If I feel like crying, I will. If I feel like I want to not cry in front of these people, I will push down the tears. I am not gonna beat myself up about any of it. I will do what I want.
To that point, I hope I don’t seem to be advocating for men crying all the time, even most (like better than 99%) of the time.
Wisdom would dictate time and place. In my examples, these were both perfect opportunities to drop my guard, and I didn’t.
As far as men being asked to be a container for women’s emotions, I think I know where you’re coming from, but I also think it’s just a story. There’s nothing empirical about that claim.
We hold emotions for others, any gender, when we feel we can. Anything else would be careless.
Listening to this with my little boy on my lap, he just stopped crying from colic (I guess) a moment ago. Will let him know he is making too big a deal of it ;)
I recently experienced a man I had grown close to over the last year die suddenly. He was a psychiatrist who I met through the research and writing I've been doing about men. I participated in Zoom calls with other men who had known him much longer. Some cried openly as I did. Some held back but were visibly distraught. I've come to feel that it's grief that we don't know how to handle...whether that's losing a game or a friend. It has gotten me thinking about how much loss I've experienced in big and small ways over my whole life...and how little I've done to deal with it. Thanks for this Damon. I found it to be profound, moving and helpful for me to connect with these feelings.
At the very least, this kind of candor is an advertisement for vulnerability. It's another stone in the river-crossing to a normalized state of vulnerability.
Request: I don't know if you've already shared this on your Substack or will soon, but I'm here to support spreading stories like this around.
hey Damon, thanks for sharing your very thought-provoking post. You made me think of General George Patton — remember how he came across a soldier in the hospital who wasn’t physically injured, but who’d been traumatized — and slapped him in the face? Well, I wanted to remind you that General Eisenhower thought this was so bad, he made Patton apologize AND relieved him of his command. My point is, a lot of people in society agree with your point of view. Myself, I think about this from a super-pragmatic attitude (sorry that’s who I am) — sharing vulnerabilities is something we do with friends, not so much with opponents. What you’ve done with your coaching group is create a safe space where men can ask for help, which they might not feel comfortable doing at work or with family members. Sticking with the pragmatic theme, I also draw a distinction between how I feel and what I choose to share. This is very tactical. But, to your point, I agree — controlling how we act may be the right decision (yes, those HR peeps are watching) — but trying to control how you feel is not a workable strategy imho. Kudos to you for being the authentic person who you are.
For sure, and thank you for contributing to the conversation.
In case I’ve been sloppy, let me clean this up. I’m not advocating for a world where men (or any gender) turn into boundary-less blubbering masses.
There is a time and place for everything (except for tacos, which are always best right now).
What I hope came through is that I was shocked to discover that even I—an advocate for understanding vulnerability with a nuanced lens, and in a space where it was the right time and place,—even I choked back my tears.
I think you're wisely pointing to systemic reasons why it hasn't felt safe for men to feel what they feel and express that. Especially if it looks weak to the outer world.
Not sure what moves the needle there except for being willing to go first in the relationships that matter, to open up our wounds and share them honestly.
Thank you for the reflection, brother Damon. I think it's comforting to me that we can know this is important, yet sometimes still apologize for doing it anyways.
Man, I hope it’s that. I’m concerned that won’t cut it alone, and what’s worse? I’m blind to other solutions.
It seems like there are few of us who value being with vulnerability, for all the reasons I’ve alluded to already, and amongst that small population, even fewer who can wrestle with their hard wiring around “avoid vulnerability at all cost.”
It’s like we get the mission—a handful of us—but we’re unclear on how to execute it. Even when we have the opportunity, like dropping our guard in front of other men, we buckle. At least, I do.
My sense is that this line of thinking still puts too much emphasis on the individual effort and agency. We're collective creatures. A lot of our messaging around vulnerability is that it's important because it's important. But men especially are driven by purpose. As soon as their inability to reveal themselves becomes a liability to their ability to move towards that purpose, especially if that purpose is oriented toward collective well-being, I think there's more impetus for change.
Potentially, so long as they are dis-identified enough from their protective inner patterns that they can be open to it. I think the inner work has to come first, and then a sense of purpose led by collective well-being can unfold.
"Make happen" - is that possible? Even useful? I sense that if a large enough critical mass of men are willing to go there, even if the majority don't, it'll cause an "up-shift" in men's culture similar to what happens in chemical systems that shift from one pattern of functioning to a higher order pattern when enough molecules cohere around that new pattern. Like water to ice.
It is impossible for most men, and most men simply won't do it. Give me the ones who will. We'll make some magic together.
As a woman reading this, the connection you drew between girls learning their value is their looks and boys learning their value is their toughness is something I've never seen named so cleanly. We're both handed a cage before we're old enough to question it. The difference is that women have spent decades building a vocabulary for this. Men are just beginning to find the words.
Sista, I’m so glad this landed. I hesitate to be Professor Damon in these essays, and that point felt a little professor-y during edits. But I left it anyway. Glad I did. I think it says so much about why this matters, especially for anyone who sorta feels like “The hell with men, they’ve had it so good.”
I mean, I get that sentiment. I feel it too sometimes. It’s both true and irrelevant to my sense of compassion.
So, thank you.
Me? I’m good. Thanks for asking. The year started with a hiccup, but I’m feeling more confident now.
The cure for my hiccup is to hold my breath for 20 seconds.
Works like a charm.
In my latest essay, I wrote something about my husband. It caused some 'discomfort' with a few female friends, who said I was selling myself short. I was just being honest. I stand by my words.
A low-key way of trying to get you to read my article, hahahahaha
Have you ever thought that maybe us men *should* be holding back those tears? Maybe not all the time, but most of the time?
We are also told that we need to be a container for women's emotions and that we need to be rock steady so that we can be predictable and reliable (that is what they call "emotional safety"). How can I break down crying but also be the container and the emotionally safe one? How can I let go if I have to be the rock the waves break against?
The messaging is all bullshit, all contradictory, *especially* from women. I've stopped listening to most of it and have worked on regulating my own emotions. If I feel like crying, I will. If I feel like I want to not cry in front of these people, I will push down the tears. I am not gonna beat myself up about any of it. I will do what I want.
Of course I have, in many contexts.
To that point, I hope I don’t seem to be advocating for men crying all the time, even most (like better than 99%) of the time.
Wisdom would dictate time and place. In my examples, these were both perfect opportunities to drop my guard, and I didn’t.
As far as men being asked to be a container for women’s emotions, I think I know where you’re coming from, but I also think it’s just a story. There’s nothing empirical about that claim.
We hold emotions for others, any gender, when we feel we can. Anything else would be careless.
Listening to this with my little boy on my lap, he just stopped crying from colic (I guess) a moment ago. Will let him know he is making too big a deal of it ;)
Oh! See??
It's Nadine's fault, everyone.
I accept it!
I recently experienced a man I had grown close to over the last year die suddenly. He was a psychiatrist who I met through the research and writing I've been doing about men. I participated in Zoom calls with other men who had known him much longer. Some cried openly as I did. Some held back but were visibly distraught. I've come to feel that it's grief that we don't know how to handle...whether that's losing a game or a friend. It has gotten me thinking about how much loss I've experienced in big and small ways over my whole life...and how little I've done to deal with it. Thanks for this Damon. I found it to be profound, moving and helpful for me to connect with these feelings.
The thanks is for you, friend, for sharing this.
At the very least, this kind of candor is an advertisement for vulnerability. It's another stone in the river-crossing to a normalized state of vulnerability.
Request: I don't know if you've already shared this on your Substack or will soon, but I'm here to support spreading stories like this around.
hey Damon, thanks for sharing your very thought-provoking post. You made me think of General George Patton — remember how he came across a soldier in the hospital who wasn’t physically injured, but who’d been traumatized — and slapped him in the face? Well, I wanted to remind you that General Eisenhower thought this was so bad, he made Patton apologize AND relieved him of his command. My point is, a lot of people in society agree with your point of view. Myself, I think about this from a super-pragmatic attitude (sorry that’s who I am) — sharing vulnerabilities is something we do with friends, not so much with opponents. What you’ve done with your coaching group is create a safe space where men can ask for help, which they might not feel comfortable doing at work or with family members. Sticking with the pragmatic theme, I also draw a distinction between how I feel and what I choose to share. This is very tactical. But, to your point, I agree — controlling how we act may be the right decision (yes, those HR peeps are watching) — but trying to control how you feel is not a workable strategy imho. Kudos to you for being the authentic person who you are.
For sure, and thank you for contributing to the conversation.
In case I’ve been sloppy, let me clean this up. I’m not advocating for a world where men (or any gender) turn into boundary-less blubbering masses.
There is a time and place for everything (except for tacos, which are always best right now).
What I hope came through is that I was shocked to discover that even I—an advocate for understanding vulnerability with a nuanced lens, and in a space where it was the right time and place,—even I choked back my tears.
I think you're wisely pointing to systemic reasons why it hasn't felt safe for men to feel what they feel and express that. Especially if it looks weak to the outer world.
Not sure what moves the needle there except for being willing to go first in the relationships that matter, to open up our wounds and share them honestly.
Thank you for the reflection, brother Damon. I think it's comforting to me that we can know this is important, yet sometimes still apologize for doing it anyways.
Man, I hope it’s that. I’m concerned that won’t cut it alone, and what’s worse? I’m blind to other solutions.
It seems like there are few of us who value being with vulnerability, for all the reasons I’ve alluded to already, and amongst that small population, even fewer who can wrestle with their hard wiring around “avoid vulnerability at all cost.”
It’s like we get the mission—a handful of us—but we’re unclear on how to execute it. Even when we have the opportunity, like dropping our guard in front of other men, we buckle. At least, I do.
Thank you for being here, JJ.
My sense is that this line of thinking still puts too much emphasis on the individual effort and agency. We're collective creatures. A lot of our messaging around vulnerability is that it's important because it's important. But men especially are driven by purpose. As soon as their inability to reveal themselves becomes a liability to their ability to move towards that purpose, especially if that purpose is oriented toward collective well-being, I think there's more impetus for change.
Optimistic, maybe. But I'm nothing if not that.
You seem to be lobbying for the idea that collective dynamics can pull a man into vulnerability, yes?
Potentially, so long as they are dis-identified enough from their protective inner patterns that they can be open to it. I think the inner work has to come first, and then a sense of purpose led by collective well-being can unfold.
Right. That first part is what I'm saying I want to figure out how to make happen for most men, and I think it's a lot harder than it seems.
And it already seems hard enough, closer to impossible for men.
But I think it's necessary for all of our sakes.
"Make happen" - is that possible? Even useful? I sense that if a large enough critical mass of men are willing to go there, even if the majority don't, it'll cause an "up-shift" in men's culture similar to what happens in chemical systems that shift from one pattern of functioning to a higher order pattern when enough molecules cohere around that new pattern. Like water to ice.
It is impossible for most men, and most men simply won't do it. Give me the ones who will. We'll make some magic together.
As a woman reading this, the connection you drew between girls learning their value is their looks and boys learning their value is their toughness is something I've never seen named so cleanly. We're both handed a cage before we're old enough to question it. The difference is that women have spent decades building a vocabulary for this. Men are just beginning to find the words.
How are you doing, Damon?
Happy Tuesday!
Sista, I’m so glad this landed. I hesitate to be Professor Damon in these essays, and that point felt a little professor-y during edits. But I left it anyway. Glad I did. I think it says so much about why this matters, especially for anyone who sorta feels like “The hell with men, they’ve had it so good.”
I mean, I get that sentiment. I feel it too sometimes. It’s both true and irrelevant to my sense of compassion.
So, thank you.
Me? I’m good. Thanks for asking. The year started with a hiccup, but I’m feeling more confident now.
The cure for my hiccup is to hold my breath for 20 seconds.
Works like a charm.
In my latest essay, I wrote something about my husband. It caused some 'discomfort' with a few female friends, who said I was selling myself short. I was just being honest. I stand by my words.
A low-key way of trying to get you to read my article, hahahahaha
Glad you are doing well, bro.
Reading your latest essay on my list, for sure.
Glad to see you back!
Thank you :)